Beheaded Canada bus man

1 08 2008

I was reading a story this morning about a man who killed a young man on a bus. Actually removing his head, walking to the front of the bus and presenting it to the passengers. Who were then frightened. So I was interested in his story, it is sad the young man’s life was so tragically ended this way by a man he didn’t know and for no apparent reason. The story said that the murderer was emotionless and cold when he went to the front of the bus, as in he wasn’t mad, crazy, or any of the normal emotions you would think that would warrant a man do stab someone 16 times and cut off their head. It is a horrible story and the more you think about being present the more you would realize the crippling fear you would experience when that happened. While all the news people are talking about security and all that in the bus travel industry.

I am pondering what snapped in a persons mind like that?

How do something like that happen without a fit of rage?

How does human life then become so impersonal that you could snuff it out like that with as much reactions tying your shoes?

I bet a lot of people wonder why would God allow someone to do such a thing?

Or Why that kid, who was said to be funny and “bubbly?”

You would hear in church that things happen for a reason and God is weaving a tapestry and we cannot see the ultimate picture. That pain and suffering is a “megaphone of the cross” to steal Louie’s words. I am not going to answer that cause there are far more intelligent communicators who can explain that better than I can.

What I want to discuss, is how does a man or woman snap like that? Personally I notice when I do something difficult or tough the first few times it is hard. Then it gets easier! Had this man done this before? Another thought I have is God says he loves everyone, Does he really love this man?

The answer is yes, and this man still can be forgiven by the blood of the savior. He is one of the ones the church leaves out to dry, I dunno if it is cause some people don’t care for them to be loved since they showed no mercy or compassion for someone to cut off their head.

But we look at television and see a man named Jack Bauer cut off a man’s head to help solve the situation. Jack did this with no remorse or visible pain. Now I know it is television and it was the good guy doing something to bring down the bad guy. But on the show we would forget and even overlook this action by Jack Bauer. I know you are thinking, yeah this is a silly comparison. My point is that murder is murder and it is wrong. But like murder there are other things that are wrong and doesn’t make a person bad. We all have done things we wouldn’t want others to know about and would be shamed if they did. But actions don’t make our whole selves bad. I am not condoning or saying that the murderer is a good man I do not know him.

What I am saying is that this country has this “damn them to hell” attitude with people who commit crimes.

We have this “oh, I cannot believe they did that!” When you have thought about the same action! We say, “Eye for an eye, they killed a little boy they should be put to death.” Then they say they believe the bible and love Jesus. Not doubting that they love Jesus but, Jesus was the largest advocate for love, grace, mercy, and compassion EVER! He was with murders, prostitutes, thieves, and he loved them. He didn’t damn them to eternal suffering. He didn’t stone them for being a whore, even when he could have. He showed them love and compassion. Now the bible does say that there are consequences to wrong doing. (Gal 5)

How can we as a people and body of Christ sentence someone to death for their crimes we caught them doing?

How can the person who says they were appointed by God to lead the nation, send more people to death than any other leader?

I am not saying they should be set free, or they should work with our children of course not. What I am saying is that even the worst of the worst (Paul) can be changed in an instant by God. Even the man going out to slaughter a whole group of people for believing something can be stopped changed and go on to lead that group.

So let’s have some mercy let’s show people, “hey even though you messed up you are still lovable.”Cause Jesus did and God calls us to. I know you will say, “can you love a killer?” I want to answer yes, but the truth is through the Holy Spirit I know I can. Just because you have written someone or something off cause you think there is no hope. DON’T put God in the box! For He CAN change that man’s heart. And God may want to use you as the segway into his spirit.

So let’s pray for the persecuted and the persecutor that they both find their way to the Lord!

-hoov

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22 responses

1 08 2008
adamsemail

You’ve got more forgiveness going on than I do. I read this and the number one reason I’m upset about it is that nobody on the bus did anything to stop the guy. Even if the victim was dead, I would have done something. Would you have done something, or would you have run off the bus like all the other sheep, praying?

1 08 2008
Jonathan Hoover

Honestly not sure what would happen. As i am sure you don’t really know what you would do til in the situation.
I am sure i would be frightened. I would want the man to stop.
As for why people did nothing i don’t know? I would imagine they didn’t realize what was going on. Or if they did then i don’t know why they wouldn’t try to stop him.

Who knows horrible thing to think about being involved in!

1 08 2008
Sharky456

This grizzly pig deserves eternal punishment

2 08 2008
x

Paranoid Delusional Schizophrenia at its finest for sure.

2 08 2008
Patricia

He should have been shot and killed on the spot. No wasted resources on housing, assessing, defending, and ultimately efforts to rehabilitate. Tragic waste on many levels, what a shame such a venemous spirit remains on this earth and part of our society.

2 08 2008
Jonathan in The Limelight

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Ther peice of shit deserves to die a death just as gruesome as the one he inflicted on his victim. It was a sensless act of pure evil designed to terrorize the victim and everyone else on that bus. He deserves no mercy.

2 08 2008
erik, what to do

Bizzare,
The guy is nuts, what made him do this thing? It was obviously planned, as he brought along the Rambo knife. We all have had the feeling of a frustration, but this was insane, how could he do this? As he didn’t get killed, I hope investigators can examine this guy, down to the last little detail. Even though we might wish the worst for this guy it is important to investigate “what went wrong in this man’s head”. Put him in Cat scanners, check his childhood, make him talk to shrinks (poor shrinks). We would get any benefit from getting this man killed, but if some professionals can take a look at just what went wrong in this man’s head we can learn from it, and by that prevent other simillar cases in the future.

2 08 2008
Joel

When I read this, the absolute first thing that came to my mind was that this was undoubtedly a demonic act. Nobody sits down next to someone on a bus and then does what this guy did on his own inititative. What solidified it to me as such was when they said he casually walked to the front of the bus with the head in his hand, then he went back and began to slowly cut up the body.

Although many people think it’s ridiclous to pin such acts on spiritual beings, I have no doubts. Nobody gets to that point just by having a “rough life”. If we’re indeed in the last days, the Word states that just as God pours out His Spirit on all flesh, the enemy will likewise rise in power and be more evident. Read the news – it couldn’t be more obvious. Few news stories move me – this one however had such an evil to it. Yet another reason to walk in discernment and awareness (not fear) in this hour.

2 08 2008
Jonathan Hoover

@erik @joel i agree with joel i don’t believe this is a product of a rough childhood or the media. This si someone who seemed indwelled with something evil. Then again i coudl be wrong.
I do think this was a horrible act that was done and this man should pay for the actions he has committed. what i am saying about him is that God will use what he has done and could use him to grow his kingdom and bring more people into his world.

I am praying for the the McLean family for strength through this time of horror. I also pray for the passengers who are now scarred for the rest of their lives that they could move of from the memories. I still pray for Mr. Weiguang Li that he might try to seek God in such a dark part of this man’s life.

2 08 2008
Mary

I think the important thing is that the bus passengers blocked the doors so that this man could be captured and prevented from doing this to more people. The best the pasengers could do was secure the person to prevent him from harming others. I am grareful to God no one else was hurt.

Let us pray for the man who was murdered – Pray for his soul – his family and his loved ones left behind. Let us also pray for those who witnessed this attack – that God my help them find peace despite the horror of it all.

People please if you get a bad vibe from someone in public – back away – move – watch for the people who don’t relate to others- follow the intuition God gave you.

2 08 2008
Mad in Ontario

What we need is capital punishment back. It should also be legal for police responding to this situation to put a bullet through the animals head.

3 08 2008
Anthony

To the author, I can appreciate the topic of compassion and forgiveness, which are beautiful things about Christianity and other traditions of wisdom. But I think these thoughts are out of place here. A person had his life taken away and his body dishonored, and the people that loved him as well as those who witnessed it are left with this horrible reality. That’s the only reality for them and not the forgivability of the perpetrator who did this. I also echo a couple of comments found here. It would have been nice if there had been a reliable gun owner on the bus, who could have SHOT the attacker to death as quickly as possible. This would have been possible with laws that allow for gun ownership. A fellow citizen could have protected himself and others by shooting this attacker to death, had there been such freedom within Canadian law. And the death penalty should be reinstated and carefully administered. There is very little room for error as to “who truly committed the crime” in this case, so there should be no worried that the wrong person was executed. Finally, I think thoughts focused on the real well-being of our people should supersede any temptations to bring up “God.” This should be a country of people that are safe and protected first and foremost, and this would include attention to effective ways to prevent, deter and deal with violence and crime, not attention to what God would have to say. Religious discussions are quite secondary and do little material good in this situation. Thanks for the space in which to speak.

3 08 2008
forgiven

It is clearly shown his unhuman behave and I guess he is mental illed.
I think the bus driver and others did right thing and it is not wise to just shot him at site.
Why? We are human and live in a human society. His case may need investigate and the outcome might be important to help preventing similars.
capital punishment is not improving the safety, nor save tax money.
Let’s pray for the family, pray for all of the suffered.

3 08 2008
Li is from China

the cannibal Mr. Li is originally from China.
The country has been killing thousands of his own citizens, including removing human organs for organ sale. When Canada opens its door to Chinese without considering their background, the Canadians will have to suffer from such reckless immigration policy. Unless Canadians do something about this, you will see more Chinese immigrants killing other Canadians. There have been several incidents of Chinese immigrants killing people, so consider deporting those who are not good for Canada.

4 08 2008
Robin

In 2005 my best friends sister was stabbed to death while she slept, then her 9 month old was drowned in the bathtub. I was there with my friend through the first hours of realization of this fact, to the visit to the murder scene after the bodies were removed. I was the one who let the water out of the bath tub so my friend didn’t have to see it. I was there when the 10 year old surviving child was told of her mother and sisters fate. I helped plan the funerals. I witnessed first hand the devastation brought on by murderous hands. My life was forever changed during that time as was many others.

In 2007, just before the murder trial was to begin, thoughts of the process were all consuming. I was filled with such rage and hate for this man it was sometimes hard to function. I also found myself struggling with my own convictions. As a believer in Christ Jesus, my feelings were so mixed and jumbled on what I thought I should feel for this man. I recall the exact moment when a shocking realization hit me so hard it literally stopped me in my tracks and immediately brought me to my knees. In my Fathers eyes, my feelings of pure hate and disdain for this man where just as much a sin as the acts that were perpetrated against two innocent people. Sin is sin. It was then that I started the process of forgiveness.

Without the peace of God resting on my shoulders, I would never of been able to sit in the same courtroom as this man. I would not of been able to listen to the vivid details of a confession read by the detective who took it. I would not have been able to sit still as forensic psychologists explained the mental issues he was going through after he murdered my friend, and how afterwards he was no longer responsible for his thoughts as he decided to take the life of a beautiful baby girl.

I will never understand why this happened, but I dont have to. There was a point that I realized, as horrific as this was, there is something that will come out of it. My best friend made the statement not long after this happened that her sister and niece were now a statistic, number 52 and 53, on the States Murder Victims Registry, but those two numbers represented lives that would touch others. It has been proven to be true, there have been people who contacted the family and shared with them how this event has caused them to make a change in their own lives.

This murderer will spend the rest of his life imprisoned. I do not know what God has in store for him. He very well might live out his life with the same sick and infected mind he had when he took the life of two beautiful people. BUT, what if God has other plans for him? What if somehow his life can speak to someone and change them? I do not know, I can only pray.

I realized that God works in such multifaceted ways. What we see apparent is only a fraction of what He is doing. As has happened so many times before, many will question why God allowed this to happen? Where was He while this was happening to such an undeserving person? I can’t help but wonder what kind of society we have become where it takes something as grisly as this for Him to get our attention. There is no way for any one person to know the true affects of this tragedy. I am assured that God was and will remain right where He has always been, there for me and anyone else who needs him.
This story had captured world wide attention. The seemingly randomness of it both confuses and mortifies us, but how will it change us? Will we hold our own family a little closer? Will we not take for granted those we love? Will we try and find in ourselves the tiny thread of mercy that will start us on the path to the freedom forgiveness allows?

I pray for Tim McLean’s loved ones first. Their loss is tangible; they have a long difficult road ahead of them. I pray for those people that were on the bus that witnessed this terrible event, they will live with those memories for the rest of their lives. I pray for all the responding personnel, from the police officers to the crime scene investigators to the coroner. I know from my own experience, these people are not untouched by their involvement in the aftermath. I pray for the murders family, as incomprehensible as this is to everyone else, for them to know, and to love, someone capable of performing such acts, there is no way to describe what they might be going through also.

Lastly, I pray for Mr Li. God knows, he needs it.

4 08 2008
Jonathan Hoover

@anthony forgiveness isn’t something that should be detemrined by deeds or lack of deeds. The whole reason for needed forgiveness is that we fall short we sin. I do appreciate however you not being insulting with your opinions. But wishing there was a reliable gun owner on the bus could have made it a worse mess than it was. As for captital punishment, personally i used to be for it and then relized how that really clashes with my faith. I now think differently. I do however understand your thought on the matter, you do not feel that there is an all loving God. With unconditional love, who can forgive anyone of anything if they seek him. I do not expect you to follow the doctrine of something you don’t believe.

@li is from china, i am sorry that is about the most ignorant thing i could think of saying about this crime. yes he was chinese, yes he did this horrible thing. But no it doesn’t show the hearts and mind of every chinese. Though i don’t know the history of Canada and it’s rise to the nation it is today. I feel certain that it was helped by the american people who are people of many races colors and from many countries around the world. Just as not all americans are good, not all communists are bad. A persons nationality doesn’t make them good ro bad.

@robin Well i really liked your responce, i suggest to you to read a book called the shack. Your right, i am not praising what this man did or saying this man should be free we all have consequences to our decisions. But when he hold thye power of blame and hatred for someone we are actually keeping ourselves from being closer to God. When we release that person and forgive them we can move on and try to move along God’s path. Forgiving is not the beginning of a relationship, but forgiving is letting the other free to face his life “eyeball to eyeball.”

This was a horrible event, and we never did anything to earn or deserve God’s love and acceptance, how can de “do” something that could make you not loveable.

4 08 2008
Anthony

Jonathan, I guess we have a couple of fundamental differences in perspective. I’m not here to be an insulting person over comments about Jesus or compassion or any of those values. I’m also not here to harp or pout, but in my honesty, I took offense at your approach to the topic. (Afterthought since then is that this your own personal blog space and not a comment left on a newspaper article page, so I have tried to recalibrate my reactions.)

If you are looking for the best black and white way to define my beliefs, I guess I would have to be on the non-believing side, because I don’t actively express anything that shows a following of Jesus Christ. Where black and white have less distinction, however, I suppose there is a lot that I subscribe to that is very Jesus-like, and I also recognized earlier that compassion and forgiveness are beautiful things – and they are also disarming things. I suppose the label that would be affixed to my forehead would be humanist within a religious context, or a mild conservative with no religious leaning.

I respect that this is a place where you want to engage others in the discourse of religious thought, but I just find my fuel tank dry and empty at giving this approach a chance, when in the very everyday, secular, it-happens-whether-you-believe-this-or that world on foot, wings, and wheels, a guy dozed into sleep in a container of public space and was knifed over and over and over (dozens and dozens) of times and then had his head removed for presentation purposes in Taliban (Islamo-extremist) fashion, which 12-year-old boys the size of Tim Mclean have been taught to do, by the way. And then the body even further slashed and butchered and parts consumed by the same subject worth a discussion on Christian forgiveness. A simple young man barely out of boyhood with the stature some upright dogs can compete with dozing on a bus in an “unreadied” state, probably listening to Top 40 Music, and apparently after text-messaging people that knew him, got his throat stabbed multiple times until there was nothing left for him to react to and until he died and his removed head could be lifted up and “presented” and then dropped to the floor, like it was nothing better than a football.

I don’t think I can be very harsh on myself for an absent effort to look for forgiveness or any remembered Christianity in this context. I don’t hasten to get into the religious mode of thought on this whatsoever. Answers to how to deal with this do not lie in religion. This is about law and safety that is blind to difference in creed and cultural origin, and I would like these things to reign over any and all religious discourse. When I see a lack in that perspective, I question with some degree of passion what worth a religiously-based view materially has; and it makes sense to me that anyone who spends time contemplating and demonstrating their religious views on a topic that involves the uber-savage stabbing to death and then beheading of a person (and then ORAL CONSUMPTION of pieces of the defeated and then-dead person) does deserve to hear that their viewpoint is not materially valuable. (No, Jesus is not for discussion on this murder, and the Bible is not for discussion either, unless you want to stir up all the similarities between lunacies that appear there with this CRIME and present-day Islamic extremists, who are a modern-day do-ers of barbarism in Biblical proportions; ie, you might do yourself a favor to steer away from religion on the topic of a helpless person KILLED like a worthless game object and BEHEADED in very pre-light bulb fashion.)

I’m very humanist and very interested in people not being killed and not being defiled like undervalued things that “Forgiveness” would allow victims to be. I will not allow human beings to be, in my mind, “martyrs” and shredded body parts because kind, praying people can find time and energy to fathom this as an opportunity. I will not make this AWFUL stabbing into the throat dozens and dozens of times and utter destruction of a person a chance for my spiritual cells to flourish. I recognize that this was an awful thing, and I recognize that there are times when other human beings need to be shot to death while they are committing crimes in an effort to reduce the damage they create. I also recognize that the humane execution of criminals results in the removal of a dangerous person, even though he may have found Jesus in jail, as they “all” do. I stick with material realities, as these are what mean life or death to me.

That’s my creed for the day.

5 08 2008
Jonathan Hoover

@anthony Well i see we do disagree. I am sadened by the terrorists and how they exploit their children, and brainwash them. I also am hurt when i read stories like Mr. McLean’s. THey are horrible things. All of it is terrible!
I just believe that since God can forgive me without me having to “do” something, that they have that same opportunity for grace and forgiveness. Only He would know if the inmates on deathrow if they truely believe.
That isn’t something we could know.

Thanks for the comments though!

8 08 2008
Random

God had nothing to do with this tragic act. If God was around why in the hell would he let so many people suffer from this? Fuck off and think about it. I agree, kill the rotten bastard.

8 08 2008
Jonathan Hoover

@random Well i am sorry you feel that way and think that i am stupid. Tell me this, who has the right to kill him, regardless of the fact that he killed someone else. What justification do YOU have to murder someone based on something they did.
You cannot tell me you don’t have Ghost’s in your closet, you don’t have horrible thoughts and wants. Should you be killed to keep you from acting on such thoughts?

Should WE?

You think terrible acts and great sadnesses are proof God doesn’t exsist?
What about the completely perfect combination of hundred of different elements to create and sustain life here on earth?

What about the trillions of cells in your body?

What about how everything works perfectly in the world without our intervention? Bird always have food and animals are all taken care of. Yeah that is a total action of happenstance.

Your right the fact that a man killed another is proof there is no God.

Thanks, Random!

14 08 2008
Melanie

I would like to comment on the other victims on the bus, and please remember they were also victims. We just read about this in the papers, these people on the bus saw with their own eyes, forever in their dreams and probably always looking over their shoulder. You say they did nothing? I have to disagree with that! First of all they got to safety, I don’t think any of the passengers had a knife or gun handy to stop the hunting knife that was being plunged into the poor Tim McLean, some had children, most peoples first response was to run to safety then possibly think of a plan of action which they did. They barricaded the killer on the bus and stopped him from getting away, so he couldn’t do this horrible crime to someone else. So give them a break. I get really pissed off when people say, “oh I would have helped or I would have stopped him”, yeah right, exactly when would you have stopped him? Would you have grabbed the knife out of his hands, that easy hey? Those people were all heros and the police department said they did exactly what they should have done. So to all the victims and the family of Tim McLean, my prayers are with you.

19 08 2008
Jonathan Hoover

@Melanie You’re right, none of us would know what we would do in that situation til we are in that situation.

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