S#&$ man, this is awesome!

25 07 2008

Shit, for a lot of people this isn’t a word they give a “shit about. For me growing up in the church they always equated cursing with drug-use, pre-martial sex, smoking, and drinking. As a youth these things that were pressed upon me to abstain from because it makes your relationship with God not so good. Now as an adult, I quite often use that word. I look back on my youth and realize it was a good thing for the young people to be given rules and guidelines not as legalism or earning salvation. But more helping you, helping you keep margin at a younger age so that you will can try to stay away from things that can really hurt your life physically, mentally, and spiritually. I bring this up cause I have been hearting a lot from the past couple weeks about Christians and their mouths.
I think it is rather comical that most of society curses all the time with no real moral guilt or anything unless they are in front of an old lady, priest or you know what I mean. As a whole no one cares. The ones who do are the religious ones. The ones who say it is a terrible thing to say these things. Personally, I haven’t read in the bible or had a prophetic word spoken to me about the specific words I was using in my language. My take on this, I encourage you to read and find out for your self is not based from the bible directly (as I haven’t ever read anything about cursing or not cursing.) is that it is the intent of the words being said rather than the specific words at all.

Example 1. Let’s pretend someone said this to you, “Your are an ugly human being, your life makes me sad!”
‘That was very hurtful and it would make you feel terrible to hear that some anyone weather you knew them or cared about them or not.

Example 2 Here is something using a curse word, “Hey did you see Dark Knight, man it was the shit?”

Example 3 and another one “Hey man, this band fuckin rocks!”
Now on television both example 2 & 3 would have been bleeped out and edited. But the first sentence would be fine.

Moving on I understand that the “curse words” of our society do accentuate things and give them more power for the good or the bad. What I am saying in short is that; is it is NOT hypocritical for a believer to use any word in a positive manner. PERIOD they are words, the English language wasn’t invented till long long after Jesus and the bible.
Even still I hear from church leaders and such about how some other leaders said this curse word or that one. I think it is ridiculous, we should worry about the negative words being about the person who was using said curse word.

Jesus called us to love God with all our heart, mind and soul. As well as to love our neighbor as our self. I understand leading by example and the others argument about the limited vocabulary of the people who curse a lot. But sometimes you want to say what you want to say. Intent not that the word is what does the damage to someone else. It is the intent of your mouth that can start a forest fire not the word said.

So let me know what you think I mean I could be wrong, and I could be misguided.

-hoov

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12 responses

25 07 2008
Luke Roetman

I actually agree with you on this topic. Saying that movie was “the shit” and telling someone they are stupid is completely different, and obviously the latter is much worse. Even though I say some of these words here or there, I wanted to offer an opinion that my be a little different from what you believe.

I think that the language issue as it relates to specific words is largely one of wisdom. Language is talked about quite a bit in scripture (see Proverbs 10:31; Matthew 15:11; Ephesians 4:29; Colossians 3:8; and James 3) although, you are right that it does not suggest that some words may never be used (with the exception of the Lords name in vain). I think these verses are best explained as to use everything we say to ultimately glorify God. Telling someone they are stupid is definitely not glorifying God, and I would agree is much worse than my previous example about the movie. Parts of society consider some words impolite, profane or vulgar, regardless of the content they convey. This I believe is where some of those verses mentioned above come into play. The Bible makes it clear to use words that are edifying and uplifting, and if our society in general considers these words as “cuss” words, then maybe we should not use them, even if we do not use them in a “put-down” way. Does that make sense? Here is the thing… Ephesians 4:29 says “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen”. Wouldn’t you agree that most of our culture says that words like “shit” are “unwholesome”? I mean, if not, you probably wouldn’t have written the article. 🙂 So, if that’s what our society says, maybe we should refrain from these words too. And sure, we can mention 1 Cor. 10:32 which talks about giving no offense to anyone. Even though this passage was written more about eating food sacrificed to idols, I think that the context applies here too.

Just my thoughts. 🙂

25 07 2008
Jonathan Hoover

I am in whole agreement with you Luke, thanks for giving me the verses i was looking for! I do not want to cause another man to tuble neother with my actions or my words!
As we should use discernment when acting or speaking around people as to not offend them.

28 07 2008
Ryan

@ Luke – you took the words right out of my mouth!

@Jonathan – just checked out your blog to find this first post greeting me. I must confess – I immediately thought – “Oh great, another person defending the use of cuss words – probably partly because of my bad move last Friday in regards to Los’s blog content” Please forgive me for that! and thanks for a well thought-out article.

You are completely right that using words to intentionally hurt someone is far worse than the context of certain words – but, as Luke mentioned, we have an obligation to glorify God in every area of our lives and to not cause others to stumble.

Good things to think about.

28 07 2008
Jonathan Hoover

@Ryan
no your blog didn’t spur this one i have been pondering and tossing around ideas.
and i like this one and your guys comments! We should lift people up in all we say to one another. But the bottom line doesn’t really matter the words we use. Cause of grace we are free. But becuase of love we want to do right for God and others.

28 07 2008
Ryan

Right on, man.

Grace has freed us, you’re right, but don’t forget about Romans 6:1. Paul had just finished talking about how we are free from the law and under grace but then says, “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?” and also he says in Galatians 5:13, “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature ; rather, serve one another in love.”

But, like you said, whether you call “cursing” sin or not – “we want to do right for God and others.” A great way to put it.

28 07 2008
Kristin

Hoov,

Let me post this question to you… what does it mean when the Bible calls us to “be holy as I am holy?”

I know a words a word, but … and you know how much it pains me to say this… but would Jesus use words that He hadn’t heard His Father say?

I know it’s not in the Bible not to say these words. It’s like this, the verse that says, “Search me, O God and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts…”, heart there actually means thoughts and mind. So if you ask God to search you and know your thoughts, what comes to mind when someone uses slang words?

If we’re truly seeking Him with all of us, we should be striving to be like Him. In that, we should become more loving and kind, speaking truth in love. We should only do what we see our Father doing, say what we hear Him say.

Hoov, I’m proud of you! This weekend was proof that you are on the straight and narrow path. I have never seen this evidenced in you as much as I have over the past year. I want you to know that it doesn’t go unnoticed. The path is straight and narrow but it’s filled with obstacles too. We’ve got to find that balance where the path is clearer than it was in the past but not as clear as it will be in the future.

I love you as a little brother and am proud of you as a big sister! You are making right choices that is not just pleasing to us, but pleasing to your heavenly Father as well. Keep seeking Him and Him alone, not the opinions of your friends, pastor, or internet. When you seek Him with all your heart, you will find truths and the answers to mysteries He has hidden just for you.

Love you!!

29 07 2008
Joel

Hey Hoov. First and foremost, I’ve got to agree with Kristin and commend you on the path you’ve been headed down – I sat amazed at how God is transforming you.

I personally think that this topic goes hand in hand with exactly that. The more you’re transformed into the image of Christ, the more you’ll “leave behind”. On Saturday, I sat and heard you say with your own mouth that you will not condone and do things now that you had absolutely no problem with several years ago. It’s simply spiritual maturity in my opinion.

For me, cursing is leftovers of the old me – the old man that I chose to kill when I told Jesus I was only going to be alive in Him. Completely unrelated to church going and being a “good Christian”, I see it as the language of the world – a world that I’m to be in and not of.

Let me pose a scenario: You’re at Target and you see Andy Stanley at the end of the aisle. You confidently walk towards him, say “Hey man, my name’s Hoover – I attend NPCC and work with the media team. I just wanted you to know that your sermon was fuckin’ awesome yesterday morning. It was the shit!” Even knowing you’re pretty much a starightforward, this is who I am kinda guy, out of respect for him you would likely not talk like that. RIght? Would you radio your buddies across the stage at ther 11:30 service to “trun that shit down!” in the middle of a church service? Uuuuh, I hope not.

My point is this. We deem certain people as “OK, don’t talk like this or that around” for various reasons. We watch our mouths in a church building out of some weird respect for God in such a “holy place”. But when we step outside we can somehow just “walk in grace”? I don’t get it. Jesus is with me whereverI go – not in some cheeseball Sunday School kinda way – but reality. My body, my mouth, my life is a holy sanctuary that God Himself indwells. Am I free? You’d better believe it. Am I walking in grace now? Yes! BUT, I desire to live striving to sumbit ALL to Him – even words that may or may not mean anything whatsoever in the long run.

Lastly, I completely agree with you that our intentions are the fuel behind our words. And on a side note, I surely don’t assume anyone that curses to be any “less of a Believer”. I just think we’re all realizing different aspects of this walk at different times. The goal is that we’re all consistently being conformed to the image of Christ, leaving behind the ways of this world.

Good topic Hoov.

29 07 2008
Jonathan Hoover

SO you made me roll on the floor laughing with the scenario.
I agree there is respect and tact! i agree, i wouldn’t talk about certain issues around certain people out of reverance ot them and their feelings.

I guess all i have been trying to say on this is that, i hear alot of convtroversy with language with church people. I hear how someone was upset with a message from a speaker, cause they “cursed” 6 times. I mean seriously, you weren’t listening in the first place if you counted.

I know don’t “curse” at work or rarely around my parents, or infront of people of authority. But i am more that way out of the way i was raised than from submitting to God and following him.
It doens’t make me hypocritical to be that way. You wouldn’t talk about your new favorite beer infront of your friend who was an alcoholic who is trying to be clean. You just wouldn’t bring it up.

29 07 2008
Jonathan Hoover

Thanks for commenting i like it when people ad to something i talk about, hopefuylly in the end we could all grow out of it

29 07 2008
Jonathan Hoover

Thanks for commenting i like it when people ad to something i talk about, hopefuylly in the end we could all grow out of it! so thanks!!

29 07 2008
ravensojourn

Hoov,

At the risk of simply restating what has already been said I’ll try to add a comment from a different perspective. Understanding that in an ideal world words would only be bad with respect to their context is similar to clothing. Its like saying we shouldn’t have to dress up for church.

Still if a girl showed up in church dressed like she was about to go to a club it could get a little uncomfortable. But the best way to solve the problem would be to instill the self-confidence and value that a women never needs to dress trashy to be attractive. Her true value will is found in serving the Lord.

Biblically I would stand on 1 Corinthians 6:12
You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I must not become a slave to anything.

To me, steady steadfast on the freedom to offend others is really an issue of pride. It’s saying “I know you think this is wrong but I know it doesn’t matter. So, I’ll continue on even if it is something I know offends you and I can easily avoid.”

There’s a fine line between staying true to yourself and true to your devotion to love others.

30 07 2008
is joy always visible « raven’s blog

[…] just wrote a post about foul language and my response to him was actually a response to myself. It’s not like trying to keep a more […]

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